16h Dennis M Elms @DennisElms
@kurtbusiek @cullyhamner @gailsimone @ah_adamhughes @jerryordway 'Cuz that's what I thought of as how it worked. Not so much I've learned.
16h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
@DennisElms @KurtBusiek @GailSimone @AH_AdamHughes @JerryOrdway There comes a point where you learn it can't be math so much. It's music. :)
16h GailSimone @GailSimone
@CullyHamner @AH_AdamHughes @JerryOrdway What do you do if you get a full script and the writer isn't visual?
16h Jerry Ordway @JerryOrdway
@GailSimone @CullyHamner @AH_AdamHughes I just struggle through it. "What do you do if you get a full script and the writer isn't visual?"
16h GailSimone @GailSimone
@JerryOrdway @CullyHamner @AH_AdamHughes One guy who amazed me with his storytelling's was John Byrne. He added so much to my scripts.
16h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
@GailSimone @JerryOrdway @AH_AdamHughes Say what you will about Byrne, the guy's a total pro and knows his shit.
16h GailSimone @GailSimone
@CullyHamner @JerryOrdway @AH_AdamHughes He did layout tricks I didn't get until years later, honest.
16h Dennis M Elms @DennisElms
@kurtbusiek @cullyhamner @gailsimone @ah_adamhughes @jerryordway 'Cuz that's what I thought of as how it worked. Not so much I've learned.
16h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
@DennisElms @KurtBusiek @GailSimone @AH_AdamHughes @JerryOrdway There comes a point where you learn it can't be math so much. It's music. :)
16h GailSimone @GailSimone
@CullyHamner @AH_AdamHughes @JerryOrdway What do you do if you get a full script and the writer isn't visual?
16h Jerry Ordway @JerryOrdway
@GailSimone @CullyHamner @AH_AdamHughes I just struggle through it. "What do you do if you get a full script and the writer isn't visual?"
16h Jerry Ordway @JerryOrdway
@JerryOrdway @GailSimone @CullyHamner @AH_AdamHughes It's worse to have too many panels, than a non visual script.With space, you can play.
16h Ron Randall @Ron_Randall
@JerryOrdway @GailSimone @CullyHamner @AH_AdamHughes Hear him, hear him.
16h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Ron_Randall @JerryOrdway @CullyHamner @AH_AdamHughes Now I am just going to shut up and listen to my favorite artists.
15h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
I really like this #craftcon idea, and would love to help it happen. Pros in on this discussion, DM or email me, and let's talk.
15h Ron Marz @ronmarz
A #craftcon would be awesome, @CullyHamner, but I think what would really make it work is a sponsor to cover some costs.
15h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
@ronmarz @CullyHamner …craft, with panel discussions between pros and workshops/discussions for some more audience involvement.
15h davidmacho @davidmacho
@KurtBusiek @ronmarz @cullyhamner would need sponsorships to be funded.
15h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
@davidmacho @KurtBusiek @ronmarz There are way to style it more like an media academic conference and still open it to the public.
14h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
@CullyHamner @davidmacho @ronmarz …to buy work they hear being discussed, so they can see for themselves what's being talked about.
14h davidmacho @davidmacho
@KurtBusiek @cullyhamner @ronmarz oh, I agree with that, Kurt, I'm just thinking about a way to make it all work from an academic standpoint
15h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
I really like this #craftcon idea, and would love to help it happen. Pros in on this discussion, DM or email me, and let's talk.
15h Ron Marz @ronmarz
A #craftcon would be awesome, @CullyHamner, but I think what would really make it work is a sponsor to cover some costs.
15h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
@ronmarz @CullyHamner …craft, with panel discussions between pros and workshops/discussions for some more audience involvement.
15h davidmacho @davidmacho
@KurtBusiek @ronmarz @cullyhamner would need sponsorships to be funded.
15h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
@davidmacho @KurtBusiek @ronmarz There are way to style it more like an media academic conference and still open it to the public.
14h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
@CullyHamner @davidmacho @ronmarz Even academic conferences can have a retail component, even if not a full-blown bourse. Attendees want...
14h neilkleid @neilkleid
@KurtBusiek @CullyHamner @davidmacho @ronmarz what if it's conference/workshop? Taking a page from the AdobeMAX or HOWDesign events?
14h neilkleid @neilkleid
@KurtBusiek @CullyHamner @davidmacho @ronmarz so it might be partly funded by paid workshops, as well as the retail component Kurt mentions
14h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
@KurtBusiek @davidmacho @ronmarz I sort of gravitate toward @neilkleid's way of looking at it...
14h davidmacho @davidmacho
@CullyHamner @kurtbusiek @ronmarz @neilkleid i see that point, but I also see the chance to make an specific craftcon as part of a bigger...
14h davidmacho @davidmacho
@CullyHamner @kurtbusiek @ronmarz @neilkleid ...Con that supports and funds it. These things don't live out of thin air, so a bigger...
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone ...to underscore that development visually, motifs, like blindness is one in the issue, eye-lessness. Not seeing in the dark yet
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Ssnyder1835 It's interesting, wonder if something is gained AND lost, using prose techniques in a comic script...
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone It's very possible. I think for me, it's just that the inclusion of those elements -the thematic circularity of an issue...
14h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Ssnyder1835 That's the whole thing, I can't see how to lay and connect all the strings in just a plot.
14h Phil Jimenez @Philjimeneznyc
@GailSimone @Ssnyder1835 This really is fascinating! Sorry for chiming in late, always fascinated by writer process...
14h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Philjimeneznyc NOW you show up!
14h Phil Jimenez @Philjimeneznyc
@GailSimone I was/am working. Drawing, even! :)
15h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
I really like this #craftcon idea, and would love to help it happen. Pros in on this discussion, DM or email me, and let's talk.
15h Ron Marz @ronmarz
A #craftcon would be awesome, @CullyHamner, but I think what would really make it work is a sponsor to cover some costs.
15h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
@ronmarz @CullyHamner …craft, with panel discussions between pros and workshops/discussions for some more audience involvement.
15h davidmacho @davidmacho
@KurtBusiek @ronmarz @cullyhamner would need sponsorships to be funded.
15h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
@davidmacho @KurtBusiek @ronmarz I agree, although I'd prefer to not do the dealer's room thing. At that point, it's just another con.
14h Horror Comicbooks @horrorcomics
@CullyHamner @davidmacho @KurtBusiek @ronmarz if you guys pull it off please film the panels to make available to us.
14h davidmacho @davidmacho
@CullyHamner @kurtbusiek @ronmarz hmmm, you have a point. Let's discuss
14h davidmacho @davidmacho
@horrorcomics @cullyhamner @kurtbusiek @ronmarz if it happens, it HAS to be filmed and made available, for sure.
14h Horror Comicbooks @horrorcomics
@davidmacho i would love to see a writer do an 8 page story in say 5 different methods. Then 5 artists draw 1 of the methods. Same story.
14h Ron Marz @ronmarz
@CullyHamner @davidmacho @KurtBusiek Not what happens IN the stories, but HOW we tell the stories. #craftcon
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
RT @GailSimone: @Ssnyder1835 It's interesting, wonder if something is gained AND lost, using prose techniques in a comic script...
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Ssnyder1835 I mean, do we gain in subtext and theme what we lose in immediacy and visual flow?
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone ...finding in other people's work, whether by virtue of the artist OR writer. Or both together :)
15h Dan Slott @DanSlott
Speaking for myself, I break down an issue into beats, then into pages, and cut & trim till it fits the allotted space.
Then, from that page breakdown, I plot panel by panel, describing to my artist everything I need in every shot.
I'll also add notes explaining what future beats will happen in the story (or in later issues) so that the penciler will understand WHY something might have to be drawn a in special way. (For example: "Important: Please draw his coat big & bulky enough so that four pages from now we can reveal he had a parachute on underneath the entire time.")
Unless there's a very specific exchange, I only give placeholder dialogue so the artist is free to layout the panel their own way and be creative.
Sometimes scenes take on a life of their own and eat up more pages than I may have budgeted for. This happens a lot. So I pull back, ask myself the question "What's the story REALLY about?" And anything that's NOT servicing the core story gets put on the potential "chopping block."
Along the way, I'll run this draft by one of the members of my personal "think tank"-- just to get some human interaction, feedback, and let MYSELF see the issue as a whole (instead of in pieces).
I do a quick revision. And then send it into the office to see what they think.
And that's the 1st step of the process.
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone ...to underscore that development visually, motifs, like blindness is one in the issue, eye-lessness. Not seeing in the dark yet
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Ssnyder1835 It's interesting, wonder if something is gained AND lost, using prose techniques in a comic script...
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone ...trying to include in motifs and underpinnings that give it (hopefully) a rich layering effect- is part of what I love...
15h Alex Segura @alex_segura
@Ssnyder1835 @gailsimone so awesome to read this conversation.
14h GailSimone @GailSimone
@alex_segura YOU are awesome.
14h Alex Segura @alex_segura
@GailSimone awwww. Too kind!
15h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
First time I worked with Sal Buscema, I was amazed at how good (and understated) the "acting" was. My dialogue could be more playful...
15h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
@StephanAnthony We did some SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN and a TEAM-UP story.
15h Alex Segura @alex_segura
@KurtBusiek that Corona two-parter was one of my favorite stories growing up.
15h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
@alex_segura …then came up with a story wicked fast.
15h Alex Segura @alex_segura
@KurtBusiek I had no concept of creative teams at that point, but I remember it being very poignant. Held up when I re-read it years later.
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone ...to underscore that development visually, motifs, like blindness is one in the issue, eye-lessness. Not seeing in the dark yet
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Ssnyder1835 It's interesting, wonder if something is gained AND lost, using prose techniques in a comic script..
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone It's very possible. I think for me, it's just that the inclusion of those elements -the thematic circularity of an issue...
14h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Ssnyder1835 That's the whole thing, I can't see how to lay and connect all the strings in just a plot.
14h Phil Jimenez @Philjimeneznyc
@GailSimone @Ssnyder1835 This really is fascinating! Sorry for chiming in late, always fascinated by writer process...
14h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Philjimeneznyc NOW you show up!
14h Phil Jimenez @Philjimeneznyc
@GailSimone I was/am working. Drawing, even! :)
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@ErikJLarsen @GailSimone @CullyHamner @JerryOrdway That's wild 85 panels, no page breakdowns... for me, I just have trouble living in
15h Erik Larsen @ErikJLarsen
@Ssnyder1835 @GailSimone @CullyHamner @JerryOrdway also had surprise villains appear in panel three on a page--which readers see immediately
15h Jerry Ordway @JerryOrdway
@ErikJLarsen @Ssnyder1835 @GailSimone @CullyHamner How about the surprise reveal-- on the same page? What's the point, right?
15h Erik Larsen @ErikJLarsen
@JerryOrdway @Ssnyder1835 @GailSimone @CullyHamner oh, yeah--the blessing of being able to know which page will be right or left--so useful!
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@ErikJLarsen @jerryordway @ssnyder1835 @cullyhamner Now we have different things to think about, because digital moves the eye differently.
15h Jerry Ordway @JerryOrdway
@GailSimone @ErikJLarsen @ssnyder1835 @cullyhamner Well the screen doesn't change shape, and it's wide. Hard to reconcile with print.
15h Jerry Ordway @JerryOrdway
@JerryOrdway @GailSimone @ErikJLarsen @ssnyder1835 @cullyhamner good chatting with all! Gotta get some work done now! Later!
15h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
@GailSimone @ErikJLarsen @Ssnyder1835 See ya, @JerryOrdway! Great chatting!
15h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
@ronmarz @CullyHamner …craft, with panel discussions between pros and workshops/discussions for some more audience involvement.
15h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
Oh, my God, folks... writers and artist living together- this is comics pro shop talk MASS HYSTERIA! It's alive! IT'S ALIVE! #craftcon
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone ...@gregcapullo, and let him depict them however he thinks will be most effective. I just don't think of them unless i script
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone ...angry Bruce, realizing, or refusing to realize X, Y, and or Z. But writing the script, I think of other things that work...
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Ssnyder1835 That's what I was getting at, hard to lay all the strings of the tapestry if you don't share the plan in the script...
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
ript@GailSimone That stuff, for me, personally I mean, just for my own process, comes out while I script. And I tell these themes to...
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone ...to underscore that development visually, motifs, like blindness is one in the issue, eye-lessness. Not seeing in the dark yet
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@ErikJLarsen No, I agree, I love them, now, but I used to think it was cheating the reader. I know, I was goofy.
15h Hank Kanalz @Kanalz
If you haven't been following, pick up the thread from @CullyHamner @JerryOrdway @GailSimone @Ssnyder1835 @ronmarz and more. Should add #.
15h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
…because the art was doing so much of the storytelling work. I didn't have to make things clear in dialogue, I could riff off what Sal...
15h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
I really like this #craftcon idea, and would love to help it happen. Pros in on this discussion, DM or email me, and let's talk.
15h Ron Marz @ronmarz
A #craftcon would be awesome, @CullyHamner, but I think what would really make it work is a sponsor to cover some costs.
15h neilkleid @neilkleid
@ronmarz @CullyHamner why not through an organization like MoCCA or some such?
15h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
@ronmarz @CullyHamner Do it for the public, so there's paying attendees covering it. Heck, have dealers. Just focus the programming on...
15h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
@ronmarz @CullyHamner …craft, with panel discussions between pros and workshops/discussions for some more audience involvement.
15h davidmacho @davidmacho
@KurtBusiek @ronmarz @cullyhamner agreed, the panels and discussions are what would make it a #craftcon not what happens around it, and it..
15h davidmacho @davidmacho
@KurtBusiek @ronmarz @cullyhamner would need sponsorships to be funded.
15h Kurt Busiek @KurtBusiek
First time I worked with Sal Buscema, I was amazed at how good (and understated) the "acting" was. My dialogue could be more playful...
15h Jerry Ordway @JerryOrdway
@GailSimone @ErikJLarsen A doublespread is a boost to the deadline--page four is next,and you're off to the races. It's an artist motivator
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone ...angry Bruce, realizing, or refusing to realize X, Y, and or Z. But writing the script, I think of other things that work...
15h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
I really like this #craftcon idea, and would love to help it happen. Pros in on this discussion, DM or email me, and let's talk.
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@GailSimone Exactly! It's like, I know from plotting what the emotional arc of the issue will be, like for BATMAN #0, it's a young...
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@ErikJLarsen @GailSimone @CullyHamner @JerryOrdway That's wild 85 panels, no page breakdowns... for me, I just have trouble living in
15h Erik Larsen @ErikJLarsen
@Ssnyder1835 @GailSimone @CullyHamner @JerryOrdway also had surprise villains appear in panel three on a page--which readers see immediately
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@ErikJLarsen Mike Carlin taught me a lot of that mandatory craft stuff, very helpful.
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Noblex826 Oh, man, I wan't giving advice to @Ssnyder1835 ...he's an ace, I learn from HIM.
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
Yes, I write that stuff in script, too.. It helps me. RT @GailSimone: @Ssnyder1835 RIGHT! The theme of each PAGE, let alone your entire run!
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Ssnyder1835 I want every page to make sense, to lead into the next page, to tell a little story. How can you not give page breaks?
15h Tom Taylor @TomTaylorMade
@GailSimone @Ssnyder1835 for me, almost every page opening is a chapter. You reach the end of the page, you turn the page. Next chapter.
15h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
Yes, I write that stuff in script, too.. It helps me. RT @GailSimone: @Ssnyder1835 RIGHT! The theme of each PAGE, let alone your entire run!
18h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
Always full. Can't do Marvel method. RT @Church_of_COBRA: @Ssnyder1835 do you write full script or plot-first "marvel method"?
18h GailSimone @GailSimone
@Ssnyder1835 ME TOO. I absolutely loathe the 'Plot-art-dialogue' method. HATE IT. Hate to call it the "Marvel" method, people misunderstand.
15h Erik Larsen @ErikJLarsen
@GailSimone @ssnyder1835 I love the Marvel method. Only wrote a full script once--for Jim Aparo. He'd never drawn from a plot before.
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@ErikJLarsen @Ssnyder1835 You prefer it ad writer AND as artist, Erik
15h Erik Larsen @ErikJLarsen
@GailSimone @ssnyder1835 Michelinie wrote plots but didn't break it down by page. Fight scenes were often vague: fight. Maybe do this...
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@ErikJLarsen @ssnyder1835 That just seems lazy..."fight?" Really? That seems so odd.
15h Erik Larsen @ErikJLarsen
@GailSimone @Ssnyder1835 it's lazy as all hell but if a writer can't think visually--he'll get something BETTER than he can conceive.
15h Ian Goodwillie @ThePrairieGeek
@ErikJLarsen @GailSimone @Ssnyder1835 Y'all are putting on a writing clinic tonight. Best Comic-Con panel ever! #ThankYou #Seriously
15h Greg Pak @gregpak
Word. MT @GailSimone …when you get a great artist working with you on a story you believe in, it's the best thing in the world.
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@gregpak Do you to full script, Greg? There is so much comedy in your work.
15h Steve Niles @SteveNiles
@GailSimone I always do a lettering script as a final step.
15h Greg Pak @gregpak
Word. MT @GailSimone …when you get a great artist working with you on a story you believe in, it's the best thing in the world.
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
@gregpak Do you to full script, Greg? There is so much comedy in your work.
15h Steve Niles @SteveNiles
@GailSimone But if it's an outline or full script I always encourage artists to add/subtract what they like.
15h GailSimone @GailSimone
Seriously...aspiring prod should be listening to this. I am learning a lot here.
14h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@Philjimeneznyc ...of places scenes could happen that would both give him room to flex his muscles and underscore story
14h Phil Jimenez @Philjimeneznyc
@Ssnyder1835 ...when that kind of design comes from a natural reaction to inspiration from plot/script, not from the writer's dictates.
14h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@Philjimeneznyc ...of places scenes could happen that would both give him room to flex his muscles and underscore story
14h Phil Jimenez @Philjimeneznyc
@Ssnyder1835 Most writers have been really good, tho, about writing scripts that play to my strengths, or just let me have fun.
14h Scott Snyder @Ssnyder1835
@ErikJLarsen @GailSimone @CullyHamner @JerryOrdway @danslott at the end of the day, and again, i'm green at this, so forgive me if this sounds presumptuous, but i think 2 things that i try to convey to budding writers in class are:
1 - any process, so long as you feel it's producing your best work, is something to respect and work from, meaning there's no right way to pen an issue. I have a great friend who can't write a story if he knows the ending. For me, I'm the opposite. Similarly, he can't do full script b/c he loves figuring the themes and particulars out as the story comes to life visually in front of him. Again, I'm the opposite. So try out different processes until you realize what produces work you think is your best and then respect that process as yours.
But 2 - when you actually start working with an artist, you need to make sure that your process, whatever it is, is what he or she works best with, too. If it's not, you either adjust, or go separate ways. I work generally the same way with Greg, Rafa, Yanick, Jock, Sean, Dustin, Francesco... Before we started, we talked and made sure we liked the same format. It varies a little, from one to the other, but it's all full script - ALWAYS with a note at the start that enthusiastically encourages them to change anything that could be made better (change up panels, pages, pacing...) in service of the story. And with each artist, I learn new things on how to be a better writer.14h Cully Hamner @CullyHamner
14h Matthew Dow Smith @matthewdowsmith
@CullyHamner @ErikJLarsen @GailSimone @JerryOrdway @danslott I'm with Cully. Very well said, @Ssnyder1835.
14h Mitch Gerads @MitchGerads
@CullyHamner That @ssnyder1835 is one astute dude!
14h GailSimone @GailSimone
The truth is, a lot of brilliant writers use the Marvel Method, so, they obviously have made it work.
14h Hank Kanalz @Kanalz
@petergkrause @tropicalsteve @Philjimeneznyc helps to know if a character is yelling or whispering, happy, angry, sad, etc. Dialogue helps!
14h GailSimone @GailSimone
I have to go, guys. Thanks everyone so much, best Twitter discussion ever!
